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Has anyone here ever mixed or mastered an entire project in Live? I'm not wild about working in Pro Tools-or I should say, I like Live a LOT more but I've gotten mix reviews about trying to mix down a project...any advice? Comments? Warnings? ;-)
Thanks in Advance...
J
Thanks in Advance...
J
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 4:32 PMfirstly, i think there is some strange principle of human psychology at work in these prolonged internecine internet battles regarding some audio platforms dire shortcomings in the way audio is handled. recall that only a few years ago, many considered it obscene to record or mix in digital at all (though there are still some hold outs for this position).
secondly, is your music, your playing, your sound engineering, and your mixing skill developed to such a refined state that the mixing algorithm used by your DAW is a non-trivial concern? i think very few can answer yes to this (i sure as hell can't!)
thirdly, PSP vintage warmer! it is awesome. -
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 4:56 PMSure, you could do it, but there are better mastering suites out there in Logic, ProTools, DP etc. It's a matter of the tools that have to do your mastering with. It is most definitely a sufficient program for mastering a demo. If you want a professionally mastered product, you need to be a pro and use pro gear. If you feel satisfied with what you get from Live, you're good to go. If you want more dynamic part seperation and better EQing and compression suites, you need to move to another program for mastering.
Personally, I am not there yet in the mastering respect. I produce tracks that are near mastered quality, but would prefer to have someone with more experience finish the job on a better program than Live. -
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 6:46 PMYea-
This particular project I hope is going to be a great combination of digital and analog combined with sound physics and creative engineering, but I want to go in prepared to do battle...
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Mon, October 8, 2007 - 10:30 PMLOL-Yea, well it is a consideration because-although I'm in the arranging phase, when we hit the studio, I like to be prepared. I'm dealing with a full band, but many of the sounds are set up in Ableton. Not looking for an internet battle, just advice...
Personally, I prefer analog, I actually have a good deal of analog gear-including a tube Summit Audio EQ and Pre Amps and several Full Tone pedals for getting the sounds/tone I want . I also have several secret weapons, but that's another conversation.
I'm looking for advice simply because I haven't been wild about my experiences with Pro Tools (kind of underwhelmed). I can just use Rewire and slave Ableton, but I'm hoping to make it a whole Abelton project, so any advice along those lines, I would appreciate...
J
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 9:42 AMI have gotten great quazi-mastering results using Ableton with Reaktor Flatblaster 2.2 on the master channel. Flatblaster is a great all in one t-racks type mastering plugin that sounds much better than t-racks. It makes your mix very loud and pulls out small details into your mix. -
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Sun, November 4, 2007 - 8:43 AMThanks-I'll have to check that one out!
J
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Unsu...
Re: Mixing and Mastering
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 1:44 PMThere is no reason why you couldn't bounce tracks down and then throw them right back into Ableton for Mastering. Infact some would argue that Ableton might be better for mastering than actual mixing because of it's "Supposed" lower quality summing bus.
Now of course doing your mastering in a dedicated audio editor like Wavelab, Soundforge, peak (argh, I hate peak), etc. is a good idea because it gives you a way cleaner overall view of what you're doing and offers tons of nice destructive editing techniques that come in very handy.
Logic, Cubase, or Sonar (havn't used sonar really) would be a good bet for mastering too. But pro Tools? I'd have to say No. Personally, I feel that Pro Tools is such an Archaic old school style program with so many short-coming's that it's just a plain hassel to do anything in Other than actuall tracking and recording. IMHO, if you own pro tools, take advantage and record into it. But then import the recordings into ANY newer program and do your work there.
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 12:03 PM:: Ableton might be better for mastering than actual mixing because of it's "Supposed" lower quality summing bus.
i love it! virtually all music is bad - yet people spaz about that last hundredth of a percent of signal fidelity. i recommend focusing on your chops, your composition, your arrangements, and your mixing. no amount of mastering-fu can overcome failings in these categories. -
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 12:18 PM...It seems your determined to have another conversation that I really am not interested in...
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Unsu...
Re: Mixing and Mastering
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 5:06 PMJust to clarify, I don't personally believe that Ableton has a sub-par summing bus but have heard this argumement over and over again and have some pretty creditable producer friends that also seem to think so. It's an interesting topic but I don't know I can't tell a difference in sound quality as long as your you're using warp modes correctly and using descent third party eq and dynamics plugins.
Now. Going back to the original topic, I fully agree with Kage's previous "psp vintage warmer is awsome" comment. If you've mixed your track correctly then you can literally throw psp vwarmer ontop of it and get Huge results with maybe just a little further value adjustments.
Also Aaron mentioned the Phatblaster in Reaktor which is pretty amazing as well, allthough I've always used it on drum buses and not on a full mix. But it does have a great sound and if yoy want to you can push it pretty hard.
What I'm using right now as my quick ableton "Go To" mastering chain is this:
Created an fx rack and stick two utility's (one on each level). Pan the 1st utility "Hard left" and 2nd utility "Hard Right". (this simulates hard plugging into two dedicated channels on a mixing desk and gives very nice results).
Created a 2nd fx chain and put the 1st one inside of it. Then, directly after the level containing the 1st fx chain, have placed "izotope ozone" followed by the "Wavearts final plug" limiter.
In ozone the only sections I have activated are the eq, the multiband harmonic exciter (with just the tiniest bit added to the low and low-mid bands), and the "stereo widener" (with a tiny bit of widening in the high mid and high bands).
I don't like ozone's maximizer so thats why I bypass it and use the "wavearts final plug" which, to my ears, is pretty transparent, light on the cpu, and can be really pushed hard before hearing noticeable artifacts.
The best thing about this is that youre able to save the whole thing as one fx rack preset for total recall in any other project.
I imagine that the PSP Vwarmer would be good to replace the Wavarts, although it's alot heavyier on the cpu (and since it has exciter-like features then you'd probably want to bypass ozone's exciter section).
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Re: Mixing and Mastering
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 9:27 AMto clarify on my previous post, i am not hating and i am *definitely* not flexing; i am pointing out that there seems to be a disproportionate amount of interest in mastering in pro audio forums, because i feel that this process contributes negligibly to the final product when compared to composition, sound design and arrangement, and mixing. assuming you are unwaveringly putting out bomb tracks and you have zero concerns from a song writing and performance perspective (and in all seriousness - who is?) if your final mix needs a stereo expander, that suggests a mixing (or recording) problem; if your final mix needs a master EQ, that suggests a mixing problem; likewise, it's not outrageous to say that a master compressor and/or maximizer can only be justified in light of the loudness war that's been taking place for the last few decades *at the expense of the final mix*.
(that being said, i use these tools, but their use is justified by my lack of skill!)
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